Conversing Across the Divide: Viewpoints on Migration and Society
Introducing the Participants
Steve, 64, Essex
Occupation: Retired insurance professional
Political history: Usually Tory, except when he resided in a left-leaning London borough and supported the SDP
Interesting fact: His specialty in underwriting was kidnap and ransom: “Everyone always says that insurance is boring, but it’s far from it when you’re planning evacuating people from the Korean peninsula because the North Koreans have opened the missile silos”
Eva, twenty-five, London
Profession: Graduate in psychology
Voting record: In her native land, Aotearoa, she voted a combination of Labour and Green
Interesting fact: Eva has been employed as a singer on cruise ships; her longest trip was six months, which is a long time to be on a boat
Initial impressions
She: Steve seemed there to have a nice time, to be receptive
Steve: She seemed like a very intelligent, well-spoken, pleasant person
Eva: I had a caprese salad, pasta with fungi, and a creamy dessert thing, it was delicious
The big beef
She: He was definitely on the side of immigration being reduced. He believes that British people who already live here, including non-white Caucasian Britons, face limited access to the essential services, because more and more people are entering. Whereas I just disagree that the figures are that bad
Steve: I’m for skilled immigration, I have no desire to reside in a homogeneous, WASP country with warm beer. But I maintain that authorities have used immigration to fill the jobs they struggle to staff without increasing salaries. Wages are suppressed, so taxes have to be minimized, so we are unable to improve services – allocate additional funds on childcare, on schooling, on technology
She: I don’t have that much knowledge of Brexit, because I was sixteen and abroad when it happened. He clarified it to me in a different perspective. He informed me about EU labor migrants – people could arrive in the UK and only be paid the wage of the their nation of origin
Steve: Macron spent 24 months getting the EU to abolish the system; it was revised in 2018. Previously, migrant laborers coming in were undercutting local employees. Under the former PM, it was petroleum staff that were imported; since then it’s been hospitality, farms. She grasped that, because she’d worked on a cruise ship and said she was paid a lot more than workers from other countries
Sharing plate
He: It would be great to have a alternative power, transition from fossil fuels. I disapprove of environmental harm, I value fresh atmosphere, I love the countryside. We found consensus on a lot of that. But I said, “What do you think of the Scandinavian nation?” Their oil and gas profits soared after Ukraine started, they used that money to develop green infrastructure
She: So we’re using their oil. You can see that’s not a good way to proceed. He was supportive of continuing our own oil exploration for the small amount we’ll require in the coming years. I kind of agree with him. We’re still going to rely on air travel. We both think we should be advancing to greener solutions, windfarms and water power
For afters
She: We touched on Islamophobia, though we avoided labeling it. He seemed worried by extremism coming here – he did mention that a many individuals in the Arab world were extremist, which I didn’t think fair. I think it’s prejudiced to make judgments based on faith
Steve: I hail from the eastern part of London. I asked her if she’d been to that district, and she said it had been modernized. Obviously, I would say that: full of yuppies. But when I go down Chrisp Street market, I look like a foreigner. People stare at me because it’s become predominantly Islamic. She had a little look at me about that. I used the word segregated area. Eva’s got Polish-Jewish ancestry – she objects to the term, to her it implies deprivation. I said, “No, it’s an area that becomes theirs.” I consented to substitute a different word – maybe community?
She: I believe that Muslim people are really disproportionately shown in the news outlets as doing things wrong. It seems a somewhat discriminatory, or prejudiced against foreigners
Conclusion
He: I think we separated amicably. We had a hug at the train stop
Eva: We both said that we’d had a wonderful evening
